Climate Action on Capitol Hill: Methods for Driving Progress
Lori Lodes is the executive director of Climate Power, a strategic communications operation focused on building political will and public support for bold climate action. It was founded going into the 2020 US presidential election and played a key role in establishing climate as a core messaging pull through for the Biden campaign and Build Back Better agenda. Before stewarding Climate Power, Lori spent a handful of years in corporate communications at Apple. She was deputy director of communications for Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2016, and she spent many years working on communication initiatives for the Affordable Care Act and healthcare.gov.
We were looking forward to talking with Lori to hear how she's taking her learnings from managing communications efforts at the highest levels of corporate and political initiatives, and applying them to climate. In the few short years that Climate Power has been active, it's shifted from helping place climate on the Biden campaign agenda, to supporting the passage of landmark federal climate legislation, to now highlighting stories of successful policy implementation at the state and local level. It's an ever-shifting chess board, and our chat with Lori helped us recognize just how much the conversation on climate has evolved in the national discourse in a few short years.
Get connected:
Cody Simms
Lori Lodes
Climate Power Website
MCJ Podcast / Collective
*You can also reach us via email at info@mcjcollective.com, where we encourage you to share your feedback on episodes and suggestions for future topics or guests.
Episode recorded on April 27, 2023.
In this episode, we cover:
[02:39]: Lori's background and initial reluctance to engage with climate
[05:19]: Her move to Apple after working on the 2016 Clinton campaign
[06:55]: How her experiences have informed her communication strategy
[11:49]: Lori's work with John Podesta and the origins of Climate Power
[16:42]: Transitioning the climate conversation to the mainstream
[18:38]: Climate Power's strategy to make climate a political issue and the urgency of the 2020 election
[24:52]: The rise of climate as a "kitchen table issue" during the COVID crisis in 2020
[26:40]: Aligning stakeholders and messaging to create favorable conditions for climate action
[29:33]: The Inflation Reduction Act and clean energy job creation, particularly in Republican districts
[32:03]: The challenges of the "implementation" phase of policy, and the importance of highlighting the benefits of climate action
[36:34]: Climate social media influencers at the White House and "surround sound" communications
[40:16]: How to get connected with Lori and Climate Power
[42:00]: Climate Power's current priorities, including sharing success stories to demonstrate how climate action benefits everyday people
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Cody Simms (00:00):
Today's guest on the My Climate Journey Podcast is Lori Lodes, executive director of Climate Power. Climate Power is a strategic communications operation focused on building the political will and public support for bold climate action. It was founded going into the 2020 US presidential election and played a key role in establishing climate as core messaging pull through for the Biden campaign and Build Back Better agenda. Before stewarding Climate Power, lori spent a handful of years in corporate communications at Apple. She was deputy director of communications for Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2016, and she spent many years working on communication initiatives for the Affordable Care Act and healthcare.gov.
(00:41):
So I was looking forward to talking with Lori to hear how she's taking her learnings from managing communications efforts at the highest levels of corporate and political initiatives, and applying them to climate. In the few short years that Climate Power has been active, it's shifted from helping place climate on the Biden campaign agenda, to supporting the passage of landmark federal climate legislation, to now helping to highlight stories of successful policy implementation at the state and local level. It's an ever-shifting chess board, and my chat with Lori helped me recognize just how much the conversation on climate has evolved in the national discourse in a few short years. But before we dive in, I'm Cody Simms.
Yin Lu (01:21):
I'm Yin Lu.
Jason Jacobs (01:22):
And I'm Jason Jacobs. And welcome to My Climate Journey.
Yin Lu (01:28):
This show is a growing body of knowledge focused on climate change and potential solutions.
Cody Simms (01:34):
In this podcast, we traverse disciplines, industries, and opinions to better understand and make sense of the formidable problem of climate change and all the ways people like you and I can help. With that, Lori, welcome to the show.
Lori Lodes (01:49):
Thank you so much, Cody.
Cody Simms (01:51):
Lori, I've personally have such an interest in how we communicate around climate and to whom we communicate what's happening and what needs to happen. Because frankly, I feel like historically, this whole space of climate communications has certainly left many for wanting, in terms of how do we effectively motivate people for action. And so I'm excited to learn from you about the work that you all are doing at Climate Power to drive that. But before we even dive in, let's learn about you. You've got such a strong background in the communications space. I'd love for you to share with us a little bit more about how you got started in communications broadly and then how you came to focus on climate, because I feel like there was a healthcare lens in there for you as well that presumably fed some of that interest.
Lori Lodes (02:39):
I was a very reluctant climate... I was late to the climate party for years and years and years late, to be honest. I was raised in Oklahoma and my sister-in-law and my brother are both execs in the oil and gas industry, which is a likely career path if you live in Oklahoma.
Cody Simms (03:00):
Lori, I'm from Kansas, and I have oil and gas family businesses on both my side and my wife's side of my family.
Lori Lodes (03:06):
Exactly. You know what it's like.
Cody Simms (03:07):
It's what it is when you live in that part of the country, you're in the mid 20th century.
Lori Lodes (03:11):
Exactly. And so for me, it was, I moved out to DC in the year 2000. I had graduated from law school in Texas and realized I did not want to do oil and gas or property law, which is basically what you do if you go to law school in Texas at that time. And so I moved out to DC. And that sort of began this two decade career I've had that's really at the intersection of communications, politics, and policy. But climate was not something... I would dance around the edges of it. I wouldn't really engage completely because with my family, it was just too much. It was one of those things that I knew if I were to do it, it would just, the pain that it would cause me and at home for family conversations would be way too much. And so I really focused on healthcare.
(04:08):
I focused on kitchen table issues about the economy, about what makes a good wage, how people can afford to have kids, to send them to preschool or to daycare, and how to make an economy that really works for everyone. Which for me, healthcare was at the foundational, nothing else really matters unless you have access to quality, affordable healthcare. And so I changed jobs a lot, but healthcare was sort of my through line. I went into the Obama Administration, post healthcare.govs, not working great as part of the fix it crew. And so I then went to Secretary Clinton's elect campaign in 2016 under the guise of that is the thing I can do to help secure our healthcare and all of the gains that we had made. That, of course, big picture did not work out for Secretary Clinton, but immediately post our campaign went to work to protect people's healthcare to make sure that it wasn't repealed. I was very burned out very... I was going to say very quickly, but it was the opposite of very quickly.
Cody Simms (05:19):
I can't even imagine being on the campaign team in 2016 and where your heads all must have been when that election was over.
Lori Lodes (05:28):
My chief of staff was also on the campaign and we've talked a lot about it because there is a PTSD and not overstating it at all. For those of us who are on the campaign of, I always say, it'll be the thing I think about on my deathbed is like what could we have done differently? But I was burned out and I went out to Apple, went out to Silicon Valley, and I was in charge of overseeing communications for Apple's values. A big piece of that is the environment. That forced me not only to engage in the issue more meaningfully, but to really think about the solution set and what needed to happen.
(06:08):
My husband works for Greenpeace, has worked at Greenpeace for eight years, and so he sort of carried the climate mantle for our family. But the more we talked about it, the longer I was at Apple was like, if I'm going to do anything, I wanted to get back to DC. I wanted to get back into politics to have an impact on people's lives again, because I missed it desperately, but it was climate. I had a two year old at that point in time, and just so happened that John Podesta called me and was like, "Are you bored yet?" And it was like, "Absolutely I am." He was like, "We need to start another climate organization." Long story short, we started Climate Power, and here we are.
Cody Simms (06:49):
Before we even get into what Climate Power does, and we're going to spend most of the conversation on Climate Power and climate communications. I'm interested to hear how those differing experiences of working in government for the Clinton campaign and then at Apple have honed your own strategies when it relates to communication. I mean, Apple is truly one of the best companies in the world at just about everything, but including communications. And I'm assuming they did things a bit differently than you maybe did in the public sector or on the campaign side of things. And I'm curious what you picked up with each of those experiences along the way.
Lori Lodes (07:26):
Ooh, that's a very good question. And I do think every job I have had has taught me something new and has sort of helped me grow as a communicator, as a strategist, as a campaigner, as an organizer, which is sort of how I don't think of communications as just a singular way of doing things. I really think about it honestly from an organizing perspective, and whether that is I got my start in labor, and I don't know if it's like that my labor roots that sort of come out that really think of it from the organizing side. And I think one of the things at each step, but throughout my career, what's become clearer and clearer is the importance of knowing who your community is, knowing who your audiences are. Because, and I say this and then I'll go back and qualify it.
(08:19):
One person, one organization, one company's message alone is never really going to be enough to break through. Now, I will qualify that is that the two times where I've not 100% accurate is when I worked for the government, when I worked for CMS, which oversees healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, of there is so much interest in what you do because you are setting government policy that it's very easy to get calls returned and anything you say will be news. And then the other place was Apple, which like you said, it is, at the time, was the world's most profitable company. I still believe it is, and is like no other company that I know of, as far as their commitment to exception and to everything people think they know about Steve Jobs is mostly true. And that sort of attention to detail and attention to getting things right.
(09:22):
And I do think, as my staff can definitely point to, is that that sort of attention to every single thing is something I've developed throughout my career, but has definitely been honed, when what you're saying has consequences, not only on a news story, but in people's lives. When I was working for healthcare and under the Obama Administration, everything we said and did could have had a direct impact on people's lives. And so every single word mattered and the placement of that word mattered. And so I am still very much of that mindset of I see words like a puzzle and what's the right order for them to be in, to be the most convincing, to be the most direct? I will say at Apple, you take things with you.
(10:24):
One of the words that I learned, this was back in 2014, never to use was ensure. E-N-S-U-R-E. It just doesn't mean anything. You can find a different word that's actually more impactful. By and large, I have done that. I've like let it slide now, but for years, I would never let something pass my desk that had that word in it. I still, and at Apple, it was continuing. Steve Dowling, who was my boss boss at Apple until he left, was like, "You never say the word continue. You don't need to." And so that sort of attention to detail, which sounds so small, but I think most of the great communicators that I know, it really, the details matter.
Cody Simms (11:10):
One of the things I always noticed in mostly Steve Jobs videos, but it obviously has continued on, was that they never put the word the in front of a product name. So it wasn't the iPod. It was iPod.
Lori Lodes (11:21):
And those were intentional decisions, right?
Cody Simms (11:24):
Yeah. It just helps your brain sort of associate something more properly that way, I suppose. It makes it less of a category and more of the thing.
Lori Lodes (11:32):
Exactly. Exactly.
Cody Simms (11:33):
We could do that all day, but thank you for that. What I was curious really in hearing there was like you have all these major league experiences essentially, right? You've worked at the top of sort of campaign policy, you've worked at the top of the corporate world, and now you're bringing those experiences into climate. So you mentioned John Podesta called you. Maybe for folks who don't know who John Podesta is, maybe explain who he is and this new thing, Climate Power I assume is what he called you about, didn't yet exist or was just in its infancy. Where were we in the journey of Climate Power at that point? And then maybe move right into what is Climate Power?
Lori Lodes (12:08):
It was a twinkle in John's eye at that point in time. So I've been fortunate enough to work with John in many iterations. He was former chief of staff for President Clinton. He worked in the Obama Administration on climate, but a whole host of things. He is back in the Biden Administration as the climate innovation, clean energy innovation, basically how do we implement all of the incredible progress that has been made over the past year, to really lock in climate investments and clean energy investments? How do we do that? Which we'll get into, it's very complicated. But John is also, I should have said, he was the chair of Hillary Clinton's campaign, and he is the best of the best. He is the most strategic, the smartest, the most engaged. When you have a conversation with him, he is 100% focused on what you're saying, which is good and bad because you'll get called out on if you get something wrong or if he's like, "Wait, what are you talking about?" But John has also been fighting for climate for decades now.
(13:33):
So when he called me, it was November 2019 and said, "You need to come back. We need to start a climate organization." And my initial response was like, "I am pretty sure the world does not need another climate organization. There's hundreds, if not thousands, and I do not even have experience in climate." And he was like, "Exactly." And so his theory at the time, which I learned a long time ago to listen to him, but I still questioned him. His theory was that 2020 election was going to be make or break, that because of how quickly the 2030 deadline was coming that whoever would win the presidency in 2020, we would either be taking action or we wouldn't, and it would sort of set the pathway forward.
(14:24):
And for John, it was, this is it. This is our window of opportunity. And when he looked out across the field of what people were running on and who they were, and he looked at Trump about who he is and what he was running on. There was a real risk that Trump would've won reelection, and part of the reason would've been credited to climate, or anti-climate, as the case would be.
Cody Simms (14:55):
Anti-climate. Sure.
Lori Lodes (14:55):
Right. Because he was going to fight on it. He was going to engage on it. He was going to talk about the windmills causing cancer or whatever other tomfoolery he dreamed up at that moment.
Cody Simms (15:07):
Apparently windmills on fire is a big image that makes its way through anti-climate propaganda Facebook groups, which is super crazy.
Lori Lodes (15:15):
Yeah, lots of disinformation out there. But John's whole point was like, we need a comms organization. We need someone who is just focused on how do we elevate climate into the political conversation of the 2020 elections? Because it was not, by all stretches of the imagination, not any sort of definite that it would be included or that would rise to that level. And then COVID happened. I moved back to DC on February 27th with my family.
Cody Simms (15:51):
Oh my goodness. It's like three weeks before lockdown, wasn't it?
Lori Lodes (15:54):
It was two and a half weeks before lockdown. We got our son into a school, and he was two at the time, and he was in school for three days. We were in an office for six days before everything locked down. I remember, we ended up hiring everybody virtually. And at the time, it was we wanted people in DC, and then it was like, well, we can't hire people just in DC, which is honestly was a huge benefit for us because then we were able to have people from Michigan and Texas and Florida and South Dakota, obviously California. But there was this moment of how am I even going to convince these people? Our job is to make climate a part of the 2020 political conversation, when COVID was happening.
Cody Simms (16:42):
Oh, by the way, before we even go deep into COVID, you said, "Hey, I don't have a bunch of experience in climate." And he said, "That's good." Complete that thought. I want to hear why he thought that was good.
Lori Lodes (16:52):
It was not just him. There's friends and colleagues that I had worked with along the way, Christy Goldfuss, who at the time was running at Center for American Progress' Energy and is now at NRDC. We need more people who are not just climate nerds engaged in bringing campaign experience, bringing political experience, because this is not a policy debate. We know what needs to happen. And yes, we can negotiate around the edges of what will cut the most emissions or what will do it in the most just and equitable way. But at the end of the day, this is a political fight.
Cody Simms (17:30):
I mean, it feels like to me, we are moving into a world where climate has been this wonky discussion that happened from a small set of very passionate and very informed people to a movement for it to work, it needs to be one where frankly, there are just more of us. There are more of us than there are of them, and it is now the mainstream opinion that we need to do something.
Lori Lodes (17:55):
And people bringing their different experiences and different backgrounds to it. So in year one, I'm trying to, maybe two people, two people definitely, so maybe three people had any real experience in climate. They all had presidential election experience, they all had campaign experience, but it wasn't climate. That, people can learn, and especially when you get it, you can learn it easily, but it's that instinct, that campaigning instinct that we needed people to have. And so that was our focus was not being a... We were not another climate organization. We were a strategic campaign, a communications campaign.
Cody Simms (18:38):
And so the organization got set up. It's funded by, I believe, the Center for American Progress Action Fund, League of Conservation Voters, Sierra Club, and what is it set up to do?
Lori Lodes (18:51):
So at that point, those were our founders. And the interesting thing about it was they were all very much go and just be nimble, be quick, be smart. We're not going to hold you back. And we built up this credibility with them that they weren't worried about this new thing getting in their way or doing anything that would be harmful to their organizations or to their brands. So we didn't spend money on paid ads. We were very focused of moving the narrative of making sure that it was part of the political conversation. And so two examples. One was during the summer of 2020, there were extensive fires in California all across the West Coast.
Cody Simms (19:42):
We talk about this a lot on the podcast. Orange Day in San Francisco, that fall has been a catalyzing day for many people who now are working on climate.
Lori Lodes (19:52):
Absolutely. And we had many people that are still with us today, were with us then in 2020. I remember that day so well, because a couple of our amazing videographers, Elijah and Emily both live in the San Francisco area and both went out and filmed these, just their experiences that day. Which was also traumatic in so many ways for them to be experiencing it, living it, and then also sort of reporting on it and explaining how it was impacting them and their lives. Of like, yes, I am an advocate, but really, I am just an American experiencing the extremes of climate.
Cody Simms (20:36):
Yep. So I'm hearing you say this organization got set up, the goal was to influence political will for climate, put climate into the political discourse, had some strong backing and had a team with a bunch of communications experience. And then it was sort of, okay, go figure out how to do that. And so was your focus to go focus on media? Was your focus on grassroots influencers? Was your focus on campaigns? Where did you go push?
Lori Lodes (21:05):
I mean, at that point in time, it was, one, making sure that President Biden's campaign understood this was an issue that they could run on and win on. And that was really sort of job number one was making sure that they would internalize it and believe it.
Cody Simms (21:24):
And you became the core to the 2020 Biden campaign message. It was right there.
Lori Lodes (21:29):
We briefed the campaign, I believe on April 7th or somewhere around there, right after they had secured the nomination. That was central to our strategy. Because, and this was my experience, John's experience, is that if you have a candidate, a presidential candidate who is running on an issue, they will then govern on it.
Cody Simms (21:51):
It wasn't a part of his primary dialogue, really. It was like post nomination, as you said, that all of a sudden he and now VP Harris really leaned into climate action as a message.
Lori Lodes (22:03):
And it became central to...
Cody Simms (22:05):
Build back better, right?
Lori Lodes (22:06):
... their theory. Right. Yeah. It became central to their theory of how the economy should work, and now that's what we have seen today. So number one focus was making sure that president's campaign was like embrace it. Number two was working with media. We were talking about the Orange Day and the fires. President Trump at the time had not even mentioned the fires or acknowledged them, or the hurricanes that were just pummeling the Gulf Coast for 50 days. And every day, we were sending out a press release and yelling at reporters. He is the president, he has got to do something. Finally, 50 some odd days in, The Washington Post bent, and they talked about how he had stayed silent. New York Times did that night. And on Monday, Trump was in California meeting with the wildfire team.
(23:02):
At the same time, Biden, on the same day, did his first climate speech out in Delaware, and that was on the front page of every newspaper across the country. And so I think the real, one, it was making a part of a Biden's campaign working with the media, but I think more importantly was making that connection between extreme weather and the campaign. And I think that is what really made it possible. Climate had not been included in a presidential debate, and we ran a campaign with a bunch of other people to make sure that it would be included, and it was included in every single debate.
Yin Lu (23:39):
Hey everyone, I'm Yin, a partner at MCJ Collective, here to take a quick minute to tell you about our MCJ membership community, which was born out of a collective thirst for peer-to-peer learning, and doing that goes beyond just listening to the podcast. We started in 2019 and have grown to thousands of members globally. Each week we're inspired by people who join with different backgrounds and points of view. What we all share is a deep curiosity to learn and a bias to action around ways to accelerate solutions to climate change.
(24:06):
Some awesome initiatives have come out of the community. A number of founding teams have met, several nonprofits have been established, and a bunch of hiring has been done. Many early stage investments have been made, as well as ongoing events and programming, like monthly women in climate meetups, idea jam sessions for early stage founders, climate book club, our workshops and more. Whether you've been in the climate space for a while or just embarking on your journey, having a community to support you is important. If you want to learn more, head over to mcjcollective.com, and click on the members tab at the top. Thanks, and enjoy the rest of the show.
Cody Simms (24:40):
Lori, you mentioned talking about your background that kitchen table issues has been your bread and butter, and for the 2010s, that was healthcare. And what I'm hearing you say is that over the course of that small period while we were dealing with COVID, climate managed to become a kitchen table issue because so many people were starting to experience it in their daily lives. Is that accurate?
Lori Lodes (25:06):
Absolutely. I mean, one out of three people in 2020, that summer, one out of three people experienced a climate disaster. It became real for people in a way that it wasn't just, oh, it's a problem for my children or my children's children. It became, this is a threat to my life and to my family, which I think was just, it was a turning point.
Cody Simms (25:32):
And so to some extent, the 2020 election was a referendum on Trump. But for the voters who needed more than just a referendum on Trump and needed a, I want to vote proactively for something, the strategy became climate is something they're living, breathing, feeling every day. We need to give them an answer for how this is going to change. And then of course, COVID.
Lori Lodes (25:52):
And then of course, COVID.
Cody Simms (25:54):
It's like those two things were driving the message.
Lori Lodes (25:56):
Well. And I think the thing that we were able to do that I think was unique in some ways for climate is we were able to embed our message and our narrative within COVID in some way. Because the message around COVID was like, we need politicians who believe in science and we need to trust experts. And that allowed climate to sort of get in there because the same folks who were denying COVID as a problem are the same folks who were denying climate as a problem, and I think that there was the electorate wanted adults who would listen to the experts, and that was true for COVID and it was true for climate.
Cody Simms (26:37):
I want to get into a little bit of how, how does this work? Coordinating lots of people with lots of opinions and lots of power to align on messaging is really hard. How do you do it?
Lori Lodes (26:53):
I think the thing that we were able to do and are able to do, the thing that we are able to do is I think we are helped because we are not coming at this from a policy place, and we are coming at it from climate as our candidate, and we do not care about Climate Power's brand. It's not about us. It's about climate. And how do we create the best possible environment for climate action to happen? And so for the last couple of years, that has been 100% focused on how do we create the right conditions for federal legislative action to happen? And knowing that that is not on Climate Power, we are but one cog in understanding how the entire ecosystem works together to really push for the change that we need. And so we would do press conferences on the hill with LCV, we would do actions in this state with the relevant local group.
(28:01):
We did a lot of paid advertising, a lot of paid advertising. But our focus for those two years in 2021 and 2022 was on talking to members of Congress. We needed to get to 218 votes in the house. We needed to get to 51 votes in the Senate. And so our paid advertising was used to really model how you can talk about this in a way that is a winning political message. And to your point, will actually connect to voters. So putting it in climate context, but also putting it in the, we have this huge opportunity to take action on climate, and at the same time, create millions of good paying jobs and create the type of economic future we all know we need.
Cody Simms (28:51):
And how do you determine which initiatives... You look at climate. Gosh, there have been so many different ways to approach it over the last decade, from a carbon tax kind of going punitive to what ultimately Inflation Reduction Act ended up mostly being, which was tax credits and incentives, to heavy focus on social justice and driving adaptation resiliency solutions into local communities. There are so many different ways you could go, but you all are playing this role of orchestrator to some extent of the conversation. How do you navigate that? And on the input side and on the output side, to whom do you navigate it?
Lori Lodes (29:32):
Right. So right now, there is a debate happening in Congress about how we are going to keep our government running. Are we going to default on the debt we have or are we actually going to pay our bills? And this is just, I think, an example of how all of this works because I do think it is dependent on the moment and dependent on what the outcome is that you're trying to drive. And so right now, we need to make sure that all of the actions that we've taken over the last year or two are durable. And that means, when there is a conversation happening with MAGA extremists who are pushing a default on America agenda, which includes repealing a lot of the tax credits and a lot of the climate investments we've made, our job is to make it very clear as to why that is and what it means.
(30:30):
So every quarter, we're putting out a jobs report because right now we are already seeing the benefit of these investments. There's been over 142,000 jobs created in zip codes across the country. The thing that I think that is just so amazing when you think about what's the possibility of clean energy in this economy is growing up in Oklahoma, you know where all the oil and gas states are, right? Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, go up to the Dakotas. This is the type of "Made in America" energy that every single community will benefit from.
(31:06):
And those 142,000 jobs, over half of them are in Republican districts. And we know many of these Republican members of Congress, when they're back home, they'll go to the ribbon cutting. They'll put out the quote of, "This is fantastic, these jobs coming to our community." Looking at Marjorie Taylor Greene in Dalton, Georgia, that's had thousands of new jobs in her district because of the Inflation Reduction Act. And then they come to Washington and they try to kill all of the progress that has been made. And so long way to answer your question is really, it's like, what is that moment? What do you need to achieve? And then what are the right levers to help get you there?
Cody Simms (31:50):
Yeah, interesting. And you've gone through three shifting moments from the initial building of political will to the getting it done, to now almost more the defending it and giving people the talking points to talk about how it's working.
Lori Lodes (32:03):
And the implementation. I come from the world of healthcare and implementing Obamacare. It is implementation of big, big, bold government action is hard, and it's actually a lot more difficult than the passage of it. And so this part, the part we're in right now will be the most difficult, but it's also the most exciting, and figuring out how all this works.
Cody Simms (32:28):
It's like for our listeners who've worked in big companies, it's like, yeah, the CEO said nine months ago, that was a priority, but you can't just walk into a meeting and say, "Because the CEO said so." You have to actually lay out the plan of how it's getting implemented at your division in your group, and it has to be credible.
Lori Lodes (32:44):
And when you think about the wide expanse of the Inflation Reduction Act, of the Infrastructure Jobs Act of CHIPS, there are just so many pieces of it that touches so many parts of the economy. And it's why I'm so glad my old boss, John Podesta, is in there helping to manage it, because it is not easy and it is complicated. It needs to happen fast. All of the progress needs to be made tomorrow or yesterday. And so how do we move this as quickly as possible into the places that can do something with it as quickly as possible?
Cody Simms (33:21):
And how do you balance finding politic... You said your ultimate goal is to push for political will, the increase in political will to take bold climate action. How do you balance targeting messages, either direct or via the media, at the implementers themselves, the members of Congress, the senators, the administrators relative to targeting messages at broad populace? Which of those two is really your sweet spot today? Or do you go back and forth between the two?
Lori Lodes (33:56):
I think it's both, right? I mean, over the past two years, as I said, it was very much focused on the members of Congress because that's how we needed to reach our goal, 218, 51. Now, when we're actually moving down to the state level, it is about the people. It is making sure, one of the things that's frustrating but also incredible opportunity is that no one really knows what has already happened. No one understands all of the investments that have been made and what it will actually mean to their lives and to future generations. But when you start talking to people about it and explaining just what the progress means, overwhelming popularity, and like 76% support grid improvement. And these are numbers that mean it's not just Democrats. It's not just independence. It's sort of across the board including Republicans and including more extremist Republicans.
(34:53):
And that is that sort of opportunity to raise awareness, to increase support is incredible. But what we have to do in the way that we think it's critical is we have to talk to people about what's happening already, about the benefits they can see. And a lot of that, because the way the law is designed, is going to be corporations coming in and creating new jobs, putting steel in the ground to launch or open the new battery factory or the new EV plant. And so these are big improvements that people are going to see in their communities now.
Cody Simms (35:30):
Got it. Yeah. So interesting because you mentioned we're at implementation phase, so now we're back. We're in the world of...
Lori Lodes (35:36):
People.
Cody Simms (35:37):
The money is allocated at the very highest of levels of federal government, but how does that make it to Wichita, Kansas, and what is the policy that is driving the benefit of some kind of agricultural allocation that is going to make its way to everyday people? And how do you get individual humans to see that happening? And that comes out via media stories. That comes out, and you're highlighting and tying the connection between progress and policy.
Lori Lodes (36:05):
That's absolutely right. And it is one of the big lessons we took from healthcare is you really have to define the benefits for people before they get defined for you. But it's not just media stories, it's that direct communication as well. It's sort of surrounding a person with constant reminders about what is happening and what it's going to mean to their lives. It's really nonstop to make sure that we're breaking through.
Cody Simms (36:34):
So you guys originally got on my radar last fall when a number of the climate social media influencers that I follow all showed up at the same day at the White House, and they had a meeting with President Biden and Vice President Harris, live tweeting pictures from the meeting. It was super interesting and crazy to see folks like Rollie Williams from Climate Town who's like a YouTuber that I love, and we've had on the show, we've had on the pod, sitting in a meeting with the two most powerful people in the world. How did that come together?
Lori Lodes (37:04):
It was such a great day.
Cody Simms (37:05):
And how does that tie to everything we just talked about?
Lori Lodes (37:12):
I mean, it was such a great day, and they brought in about 30, or there was about 30 different influencers who came to the White House on the day to really celebrate the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act. And more than half were climate folks that we had brought in for it. And to the point I was making, you have to have surround sound communications. And that means going to who people are listening to and talking to folks who are trusted within their communities. And what we have seen is these influencers, from folks who have millions of followers to folks that have 10,000, are critical to actually reaching people and having people understand what is happening, what is happening nationally, but really what's happening in their communities. We have a lot of work happening now. Earth Day was huge for us and actually engaging people obviously, and have a lot more work planned.
(38:11):
We are working on installing, we're working with one creator to put solar panels on her house. And so we need to find new ways and better ways to get our message out. And it can't just depend on the front page of the New York Times. That's great, and we will always be doing that work, but how can we reach people more directly on and how they get news? So we've been working closely with NowThis for years because they sort of break through. They are not a traditional news source, but they are getting real factual information to folks all of the time. So how can we take advantage of those relationships?
Cody Simms (38:51):
It's super fun. I mean, it was really exciting to see those folks who authentically speak what they are feeling with their audience directly and to see them be rewarded with some serious access was fun to see. What are the methods you use to help this orchestration? Is it press releases? Is it emails with sort of lists of current stories to highlights? How do you help people be inspired with the messages that you are seeing that need to be told?
Lori Lodes (39:20):
All of the above. I mean, I think it's the same for if you're talking to trying to reach the public as it is, you're trying to reach or to communicate with your allies and help coordinate a response. It's any or all. So it is engaging people by email. We have very active Slack channels within our community, very active Twitter groups where it's trying to make sure that folks have the information, the facts, the resources they need to be able to tell that story. So part of what I want us to be able to do is to prevent people from recreating the wheel. We don't all need to do the same research. We don't all need to come up with the same talking points. Everybody should put their spin on it. But trying to provide more of a service for folks so that we can be focused on what we need to do, which is creating that space for more climate action to be able to happen.
Cody Simms (40:16):
Listeners who run their own newsletters, we have listeners who have their own YouTube channels. We have listeners who are mainstream journalists at large media organizations covering climate. For those folks, how should they plug in to you?
Lori Lodes (40:30):
I mean, email me first of all. But seriously, we are constantly looking for new partnerships, new relationships with talking to whoever is wanting to talk about climate and talk about clean energy. We are also hiring a lot of people. So for those of you who are interested in climate and in communications, we are hiring, I think right now around 20 people, and with more to come. Because this is a moment. I mean, I feel like I've said that for the past three years now. We had our moment in 2020 of needing to break through and make it part of the political conversation. And then we had this moment where we had to pass something or it wouldn't happen. And now we have to get that right. We have to make sure that not only is there good policy and good implementation, but we're telling the story in a way that connects with people's lives. And so there is just so much work that needs to happen all across the country to really realize that.
Cody Simms (41:32):
Is the organization set up as a nonprofit? What's the structure of Climate Power?
Lori Lodes (41:33):
We are currently a fiscally sponsored entity, but we are set up as a nonprofit. So both a 501(c)(3) and a 501(c)(4).
Cody Simms (41:45):
Got it.
Lori Lodes (41:45):
So we can do both education activity, as well as more political activity, depending on what the work is.
Cody Simms (41:53):
Yep. So you can push for a specific policy if you need to, but you also...
Lori Lodes (41:57):
Or push a particular member of Congress.
Cody Simms (41:59):
Right. Current priorities you mentioned right now is trying to help push against the potential credit default issues. And it sounded like also just implementation of the three big climate bills from the last two years, Inflation Reduction Act Infrastructure and CHIPS at the state and local level. What else? What are the big things all of us should be thinking about right now?
Lori Lodes (42:21):
So honestly, one of the biggest things for us is communicating that story and is identifying storytellers who can help tell that story. I think one of the most important things that we can do is create social proof for people so that they can see how climate action is really benefiting people like them. I think most people, it's not for me, or putting solar panels on my house is way too expensive, buying an EV. People are just thinking about Tesla and not necessarily the Nissan Leaf, which some people can get for about $20,000 with the tax credits now.
Cody Simms (42:59):
Used Chevy Bolts have all new batteries in them for the most part because of the battery recall. So there you go.
Lori Lodes (43:05):
Exactly. And so I think so much of it is how do we tell this story? One of the things that's interesting, we've done a lot of focus groups over the past several years, and there has been a shift this year of in every group that we have done, someone has raised their hand to be like, "I have solar panels," or, "I know someone who has an EV," or "My brother did X." And we have reached this moment where it's becoming more normal and people see it and they understand it, and that's a real opportunity. And one of the things that we have to do is to really talk to people about how costs are coming down.
(43:47):
I think people think about EVs and they think about from five years ago, 10 years ago, and not how the prices are quickly going down. People don't know that solar and wind is so much cheaper than oil and gas now. And so a lot of it is education, but it's also having people share their stories. Like the worker on a machine line outside of Pittsburgh who now has a job because of the clean energy company taking the place of a utility that left years ago. And so there's all of these incredible stories out there. We're trying to identify them and help get them out there even further.
Cody Simms (44:24):
Well, Lori, quick plug for my partner Yin's series here at My Climate Journey Podcast, which she runs a whole pod series on our podcast called the Skilled Labor Series. And it's all about highlighting people on the front lines of working on climate, whether it's solar installers, HVAC installers, ranchers, farmers, firefighters, and helping them tell their stories. So you'll have to check it out and have your team check that out for sure.
Lori Lodes (44:49):
Absolutely. Because that's the exact work we need to be doing.
Cody Simms (44:53):
Fantastic. Well, Lori, anything I should have asked that I didn't ask today?
Lori Lodes (44:56):
I think we covered a lot. I do think one of the things that's going to be more important as we progress throughout the year is really talking about what those benefits are really going to look like for people, which we sort of touched on. But here in a few months, hopefully we'll have the rebates online where people will actually be able to get real tangible benefits at the point of sale, which I think will, it'll shift how people are actually able to interact with these products. And actually-
Cody Simms (45:25):
And for used EVs, it's the first time there's ever been, as I understand it, a used car tax credit ever.
Lori Lodes (45:31):
Oh, yeah. And that's happening now.
Cody Simms (45:33):
It's pretty cool.
Lori Lodes (45:33):
The demand is so high that it's sort of hard to find them, but they'll be there and you'll see. I mean, actually a good point on the EV front, especially, it's like most of the rental cars in this country come from the rental car companies. And rental car companies like Hertz, they're all shifting to EVs because it's so much less maintenance.
Cody Simms (45:52):
I've rented my first EV at Avis two weeks ago. It was awesome.
Lori Lodes (45:56):
Yes. Right. So the way of the future.
Cody Simms (45:58):
Well, Lori, thanks for joining us on My Climate Journey. Really appreciated learning from you and excited for the work that you're doing. And it's great to see more people like you moving into working on this space and harnessing the skills and experience that you've built to put it to work for climate.
Lori Lodes (46:15):
Awesome. Thanks so much, Cody.
Jason Jacobs (46:17):
Thanks again for joining us on My Climate Journey Podcast.
Cody Simms (46:21):
At MCJ Collective, we're all about powering collective innovation for climate solutions by breaking down silos and unleashing problem solving capacity.
Jason Jacobs (46:30):
If you'd like to learn more about MCJ Collective, visit us at mcjcollective.com. And if you have a guest suggestion, let us know that via Twitter, at @mcjpod.
Yin Lu (46:43):
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Cody Simms (46:53):
Thanks, and see you next episode.
