Shining a Light on Solar Workforce Development
*This episode is part of our Skilled Labor Series hosted by MCJ partner, Yin Lu. This series is focused on amplifying the voices of folks from the skilled labor workforce, including electricians, farmers, ranchers, HVAC installers, and others who are on the front lines of rewiring our infrastructure.
Alyssa Thomas oversees the workforce development program at SunPower, a residential solar company, that services all 50 states in the US and has been around since the mid-1980s.
The transition to clean energy is expected to generate 10 million net new jobs globally by the year 2030. Most of the anticipated job gains will likely be in the power generation, automotive, and electrical efficiency sectors. How we develop the talent to meet the job demands falls under the category of workforce development, which we've talked about before on the show. Today, we'll dive deep into what it means for the solar industry.
In this episode, Yin and Alyssa discuss what workforce development encompasses for a private-sector solar company, and why more private companies are focusing on it now as a part of their business model. We also talk about the three key levers that the US should focus on to address labor shortages in the clean energy sector, bringing back career technical education curriculum into every American high school, building a stronger social services net to provide support for people transitioning into the trades, and investing more into building and maintaining apprenticeship programs.
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Episode recorded on July 7, 2023 (Published on Aug 31, 2023)
In this episode, we cover:
[1:43] Alyssa's background and role at SunPower
[7:23] How she landed in the solar industry
[9:25] Differences between Alyssa's work in the public vs. private sector
[13:46] Non-obvious things pushing us to think about workforce development
[20:01] Where new talent in the trades might come from
[23:06] Successful partnerships for moving folks into solar
[28:59] Internal and external pathways for hiring and career development
[33:10] SunPower's work on policy
[37:19] The role of community colleges
[39:11] Addressing diversity and inclusion
[44:49] Programmatic barriers and key levers to getting more people in the trades
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Yin Lu (00:00):
The transition to clean energy is expected to generate 10 million net-new jobs globally by the year 2030. Most of the anticipated job gains are likely to be in the power generation, automotive and electrical efficiency sectors. How we develop the talent to meet the job demands falls under the category of workforce development, which we've talked about before on the show. Today, we'll deep dive into what it means for the solar industry. My guest is Alyssa Thomas, who oversees the workforce development program at SunPower, a residential solar company, which services all 50 states in the US and has been around since the mid 1980s.
(00:37):
We discuss what workforce development encompasses for a private-sector solar company, and why more private companies are focusing on it now as a part of their business model. We also talk about the three key levers that the US should focus on to address labor shortages in the clean energy sector, bringing back career technical education curriculum into every American high school, building a stronger social services net to provide support for people transitioning into the trades, and investing more into building and maintaining apprenticeship programs. But before we begin...
Cody Simms (01:11):
I'm Cody Simms.
Yin Lu (01:12):
I'm Yin Lu.
Jason Jacobs (01:13):
And I'm Jason Jacobs. Welcome to My Climate Journey.
Yin Lu (01:20):
This show is a growing body of knowledge focused on climate change and potential solutions.
Cody Simms (01:25):
In this podcast, we traverse disciplines, industries, and opinions to better understand and make sense of the formidable problem of climate change and all the ways people like you and I can help.
Yin Lu (01:38):
And with that, Alyssa Thomas, welcome to the show.
Alyssa Thomas (01:41):
Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Yin Lu (01:43):
Okay, so as I understand it, you work at an organization called SunPower, and you have actually two hats within the company. One is you manage things on the foundation side, which I want to park and we'll talk about later. And the other hat, or maybe the primary hat is you are the senior manager of workforce development and you're working at one of the longest-standing solar companies in the United States. Maybe break that down for us a bit. What does that job title mean and how did you get a position like this?
Alyssa Thomas (02:10):
Yeah, absolutely. Workforce development, I would say, is probably 90% of my job or 95% of my job. And so, essentially what this means is workforce development says, "In order for the industry to be successful, in order for us all to be successful, we need to have strategies and programs in place that focus on skill development, career pathways that benefit current employees, future employees, benefit the business and benefit the industry as a whole." So it's a really unique approach that looks at all of those stakeholders, all of their feedback on what career success looks like, and then builds programs based off of that. And so my role looks at the employee pathway, looks at what SunPower needs, looks at what the industry as a whole needs, in order to be able to successful a month from now, a year from now, three years from now, five years from now, 10 years from now.
(03:03):
I think that's also one of the really unique things about workforce development is we're not just trying to meet the talent needs of the business tomorrow. We're really looking forward and saying, "Okay, in order to reach the electrification goals that the industry has, we're going to need this many electricians, we're going to need this many installers. Is the macroeconomic conditions, is the macro labor market giving us that right now? And if not, how do we go out and build that?"
(03:32):
It's a really big-picture, really exciting role that's thinking about the long-term future and viability for the industry. And of course for job seekers themselves, by putting them into career pathways that are focused on family-sustaining wages, continual growth, continual improvement, inclusivity and belonging. So, how do you get into this job? I think a lot of people also ask me that question of, "How do you end up here?"
(03:56):
For me, this role is really the progression of just a long-time commitment to economic equity. That's where the bulk of my career has been. I've always really been concerned with people's ability to financially support themselves, financially support their families, and really have focused on how the inability to do so is often based on systemic and intentional barriers that are based around race, class, skill, et cetera. So my work has been focused on, how do we remove those barriers in the general macroeconomic, microeconomic labor conditions that exist? I started my career with the City of Philadelphia, focused on capital access programs so I worked with small businesses, particularly in the manufacturing space, on getting access to capital to be able to grow and scale their business. And that was both artisanal and advanced manufacturing, really on the small batch level.
(04:52):
And from there, I saw that capital access wasn't the only challenge that these businesses were running into. The labor pool just wasn't there for them, either. And in a city like Philadelphia, where, at the time, about 26% of the population was living at or near the poverty line, being able to put people into industrial types of jobs, manufacturing types of jobs, means middle-class wages that would pull people out of poverty, so really, really important to focus on those types of jobs. So I moved into workforce development, specifically really focusing on youth, opportunity youth, which is ages 16 to 24, typically who are disconnected from work and school and from immigrant populations as well, focusing on manufacturing trades, STEM, et cetera. And my graduate thesis at the time also looked at how we could utilize manufacturing and urban communities to revitalize and basically have a positive impact on income and wealth equity.
(05:51):
From there, the job that I had prior to joining SunPower was with the City of New York, and I led talent and strategy for the manufacturing and Industrial Innovation Council. That was an industry partnership across a variety of industrial sectors, manufacturing, transportation, logistics, utilities, energy, waste management, construction, a lot of hats for one person to wear and oversee. But I worked with C-suite-level leaders across all of those industries on apprenticeships, internships, career awareness campaigns, diversity, equity inclusion initiatives. And then as time went on, the city started focusing a lot more on building climate and circular economic principles into the job training programs that we were building.
(06:41):
So when I started doing that work on the more green jobs front, I started looking at my personal value system, which is, again, equity. I'm really, really focused on making sure that people can support themselves and that they can thrive in their communities. And a big part of being able to thrive in your community is having a livable climate. You can't do that without clean energy. We can't do that without clean and green manufacturing principles and transportation, as well. And so I made the decision to switch, specifically just to focus on clean energy and ensure that that transition to our clean energy future is one that is equitable and accessible for all.
Yin Lu (07:20):
So, within clean energy, how did you land on solar?
Alyssa Thomas (07:23):
I think it was probably a little bit by chance. I've grown up in what I refer to as an energy family. I know we've talked about this before, and many folks who might know me at SunPower have heard this story, as well, but both of my grandfathers worked for the gas company, and then my dad retired from a leadership position in operations from Avangrid, so since I was a kid, I thought about how we're powering people's homes and how we're powering their businesses and how we're powering critical spaces within our communities, as well, schools, hospitals, et cetera.
(07:58):
So I was looking at not necessarily supporting the fossil fuel, electricity generation space of that, and thinking, "How do I get into wind and solar? How do I move into this?" Because, at the end of the day, we need energy. This is a critical switch that we need to make. And of course when we're looking at greenhouse gas contributions, buildings and energy systems are some of the largest contributors, so I was looking in a space to try to find something in solar and find something in wind and knew I was looking for a needle in a haystack because there are not many internal workforce development opportunities at private companies.
(08:33):
It's something that industry associations think about, nonprofits think about, government thinks about, but internally, in companies themselves, particularly on the more younger side of the sector, as well, it's not something that you might find a position for in an internal company, and I happened to find this job right when I was looking to make the transition. I LinkedIn messaged all of the recruiters, my boss, and let them know all the value in my strategy for workforce development for SunPower.
(09:04):
I had six interviews in two weeks while I had COVID. It was all virtual, don't worry. And then I got the job. And so it's been really awesome. I've been given a high level of autonomy to really think about what workforce development means for the industry, what it means for SunPower, and I've been really empowered by my boss and my leaders to drive that strategy for the team.
Yin Lu (09:25):
Having worked in the public sector for the cities of Philadelphia and New York and now working in the private sector, how do those two different sectors compare in terms of doing the job that you do?
Alyssa Thomas (09:36):
I think that the job itself is actually pretty similar. I think it's just a matter of what we're thinking about. And, by that, I mean when you're working for the city and you're thinking about economic equity programs, you're inherently working for an agency whose sole job is to produce economic equity. There's just a differing that is always going to be the top priority of that agency because it's what they exist to do. Whereas, in private sector, I think the industry at large, when it comes to solar workforce development, is kind of a relatively new concept. It's not a legacy industry like you might see that workforce development is baked into some utilities in the way that they think about workforce development in terms of apprenticeships and up-skills because they've been around for a really long time. Same thing with manufacturing and other efficacy sectors.
(10:30):
The main difference, really, is there's a lot of fundamental education that goes on in the private sector right now for the stage that the industry is at on what we mean by workforce development, what types of programs we're talking about and how they don't only benefit the job seeker, but how they benefit us, as a company, not just in terms of our talent strategy on retention, but also in terms of our operational efficiency, by ensuring that we're working with partners in the community who are training people on the skills that we need so we have really qualified folks entering. So we have good job quality, we have good operational efficiency, we have folks who know how to do the job off the bat.
Yin Lu (11:13):
I really like this growing model, and I'm seeing it more and more now with private companies of, "Yes, there is a self-serving angle to it. If we focus on workforce development, then we will have the best talent to help us grow our business." But there's also the tide that rises all ships. We know, as an industry, we are bleeding out really great tradespeople and we need to bring more in. And so what can we, as one private company, do, maybe in concert with other private companies, in concert with government organizations, nonprofits, industry trade associations, to help rise the tide? I think this model is becoming more commonplace in the electrification space. How many years has SunPower been around for?
Alyssa Thomas (11:54):
We've been around since 1985, so almost 40 years.
Yin Lu (11:58):
So, SunPower has been around for, oh my gosh, I'm turning 40 this year, so SunPower is just a little bit younger than me, over 35 years. And for how many years has the workforce development program been around for?
Alyssa Thomas (12:10):
Well, I joined about a year and a half ago, and I am the first workforce development-designated manager at the company. For sure, through the foundation and through other partnerships along the way, the organization has done career awareness in high schools before, and we had some partnerships on the manufacturing place when we were a manufacturer, but we aren't anymore, so a lot of those programs have fluctuated in and out. But from my understanding, one of the first more formal apprenticeship partnerships that we launched was a year ago when I started.
Yin Lu (12:45):
It's new, and this industry has existed for decades. This is now bubbling up as a priority where there needs to be a team and a person really dedicated, many people dedicated to figuring out the strategy for the coming number of years to ensure that there are people to do the installations in the solar space. And, of course, that applies to all other areas of clean energy. And I'm seeing companies like, off the top of my head, BlocPower, ChargerHelp!, that are also in the energy transition space that have not only a business around electrifying and maintenance, but working with partners to ensure that there are people that we are developing to become the next generation of technicians, and so this is a trend that we're seeing.
(13:27):
I'm curious to hear from your end, having been in the public sector, in the private sector. For companies in the private sector, what are they seeing in the external workforce that is driving this push? I mean, we talked about some of the obvious, but maybe are there some non-obvious things that are helping steer the ship in a direction of, "We need to put more into workforce development"?
Alyssa Thomas (13:46):
Well, I think there's three key things that are happening that are moving us into thinking about workforce development, and one of those key things is job growth, especially on the installation side, on the operations and maintenance side, for commercial utility, et cetera, scale. There's a lot of jobs coming up, so we're looking at do we even have enough people to fill these jobs? There's a really good analysis that the BlueGreen Alliance did on the Inflation Reduction Act, which basically said, "Across all of the green jobs that can come out of that, there's going to be nine million direct and direction new jobs. Five million of those are directly and indirectly going to be related to clean energy, wind, solar, et cetera, not just solar. And 1.7 million of those are going to be in installation operations and maintenance."
(14:32):
There's a really big increase in jobs that are coming out of this bill. CEA themselves estimates that we're going to double the workforce in solar. And when we look at solar installers, that's in the top 20 fastest growing occupations in the country. So solar installers are growing at 27% between 2021 and 2031. If we look at the general occupational growth rate during the same time, around 7% to 8%, so we're growing significantly faster than the rest of the economy. And so we're going to really need to think about how we find these folks because these are all net-new jobs.
(15:08):
People who are not already in the industry, we're going to have to bring them into the industry. And then, of course, the electrician conversation that we could have endlessly every day about the shortage of electricians. Electricians are just retiring at a significantly faster pace than we're able to replace them. And so the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that we'll need 80,000 electricians every year till 2031 just to meet backfill.
(15:36):
That doesn't even count new-net entry when we're thinking about what we need to do to get to an electrification future and how many electricians we're going to need across all of these industrial sectors. We're not just talking about solar, we're also talking about whole-building electrification and what that's going to mean from an electrician standpoint, as well. Electricians are growing at an 8% rate, so on top of the 80,000 backfill, you also need to add 8% on top of that to be able to meet potential market demands. How do we do all of this? Well, we've got to get people super interested. Hopefully, everybody's really interested in working in the trades, working in clean energy, and I think that this should actually be the biggest concern of all industrial companies, that the vast majority of young people have little to no interest in trades occupations.
(16:24):
There's a few good surveys that have come out, and I can talk about my experience with the City of New York, as well, but the National Association of Home Builders found in 2017 that only 3% of high school students indicated they were interested in construction trades. That's not good. It's a pretty, pretty small percentage of students. Stanley Black & Decker did a survey with high school students in 2022 and found that only 16% considered a career across all trades occupations. That's just considering that is not a commitment to move into that field, and so we can estimate that less than that 16% are actually going to take the jump to be in a trades-related type of position.
(17:01):
When I was working for the City of New York, with my team, we conducted focus groups across several New York City high schools with afterschool high school youth programs, some of these programs even being STEM and robotics-related type of programs, and we found that young people are just not at all thinking about careers in the industrial space. They're thinking about tech, software, they're thinking about finance, law management, general business. But the thoughts on industrial and trades careers were that they were very dirty, they were very dangerous, they were repetitive in nature, and there was really no earning potential.
(17:40):
So I think the biggest thing that we asked the students was, "Do you know anyone who works in the trades? Where are these perceptions about the trades coming from?" And the general consensus was they didn't. They didn't have family members. There weren't many members in their community. And so, again, we're talking about a very urbanized New York City community, and this could be different than other labor markets across the country, but at least here, they weren't seeing people who, day-to-day, were going into the trades. And when they were having job fairs or career presentations, companies in the trades and the industrial spaces were not coming to their high schools to talk about these occupations, either.
(18:20):
So the thing is, at the end of the day, these young people are just not aware that these occupations even exist. And since they're not aware that they exist, they have misconceptions on them. We know that because of OSHA, because of strict safety policies at companies like SunPower, we have really great safety records. We're working really, really hard to ensure that people have the proper fall protection, have the proper hardhats, have the proper eye gear, have all of the proper PPE to remain safe on the job. We're also ensuring that the jobs themselves have career pathways.
(18:53):
And then when we think about electricians, I think we all know, I would not say electricians are low-paying jobs by any means at all. They're probably some of the highest paid amongst the trades positions so, at the end of the day, the positive thing is these misconceptions are just based off of a lack of awareness, not based off of students actually having realistic information. And so, with a really robust industry-wide awareness campaign, we can start to work against some of these perceptions and really paint the industry in the true light that it is, which is a really great career opportunity with wage progression and longevity for a lot of young people.
(19:33):
And then the last thing that I won't get too into because there's tons of research and publications and articles, and that's apprenticeship requirements that are coming out of the IRA. In order to reach the investment tax credit for particular system size projects, you have to have, by 2024, 15% of total hours being completed by apprentices. And so, in order to get there, we need workforce development. We can't do that without developing apprenticeship programs, pre-apprenticeship programs and other types of training.
Yin Lu (20:01):
We know that there is a pool that is now drying up and we need to fill that pool with more talent. And it sounds like there's a lot of potential for people that are thinking about their first careers to get that public awareness or to grow their awareness of the trades and bring those in. I wonder if that public awareness helps people that are currently in different arenas, outside of the trades, transition in. What percentage of that pool do you anticipate being filled with new talent coming in versus existing talent of people that maybe have five to 20 years of experience, saying, "Nope, I'm going to do a 180 and I'm going to come into this industry I know nothing about"?
Alyssa Thomas (20:47):
Yeah, I think it's a pretty even split. In fact, I would say it might even be more leaning towards that adult population who is looking to transition. And so I would say that because, if you look at the vast majority of workforce development programs that exist, they're actually aimed at adult populations, that I would say, thinking of the 21-plus range. And so a lot of times these workforce programs, they receive funding and they work with American Job Centers, which are focused on shifting underemployed Americans into different career pathways, and so these tend to be folks who are already in the job market in some capacity.
(21:23):
So those training programs that exist post-secondary, that's really what their focus is on. I think one of the big challenges when it comes to moving young people into these spaces, particularly when they're still in high school, is it's really actually very difficult to shift curriculum in public high schools, even on a career and technical education space. And so we don't actually see solar in many of the career and technical education high schools we talk to. In fact, when we're talking to career and technical education high schools, it's really around how do we provide them with curriculum so they can start thinking about how they build that into a construction trades program or electrical trades program that they already have?
(22:03):
The workforce development space for adults moving into solar is more developed right now than it is for young people and so there's a lot of need to think about how do we partner with career and technical education in high schools to build that awareness to put it into preexisting programs? How do we partner with organizations that are, again, focused on that opportunity youth range? YouthBuild, who is a really good partner of SunPower, and we've been working with them for over a year, thinking about how do we get solar into more of the construction trade programs for their young folks? So it's going to take a heavier lift, I think, to move the youth population just because there are more systemic barriers in place that make changing curriculum that young people get access to a lot more challenging. There's some high-level policy implications that go into that one.
Yin Lu (22:48):
That feels like a Department of Education long-term plan. Let's take the adult population, and whether it's a SunPower or another organization that you've worked at, are there any examples of workforce development programs or initiatives that have been particularly successful in moving people into the solar industry? And, if so, tell us more about that.
Alyssa Thomas (23:06):
Yeah, I think we have a few partners that I would highlight that I think are really excellent at what they do. And so, no surprise to anybody listening to this, GRID Alternatives is going to be probably the first one that I name. They've been around for quite some time. We've been working with them for over a decade on a variety of both workforce development initiatives, as well as thinking about the deployment of affordable residential solar into communities that they work in, as well.
Yin Lu (23:31):
Say more about them and the work that they do, and for those who want a double click into someone who's been part of GRID Alternatives through that program.
Alyssa Thomas (23:39):
GRID Alternatives does a variety of things. They have a policy arm. They also have their own installation crews that go and really focus on residential solar. I think they might do some commercial-grade, as well. And again, more affordable kind of communities, thinking about the inclusivity of solar deployment, but they also have a pretty robust workforce development training program. They have two pathways that they put folks through there. One is their installation basics training. They have 120 hours and they have a 200-hour one, as well. So, as you could imagine, the 200-hour one is going to be a little bit more robust.
(24:13):
And then they also have a solar fellowship, which is where folks get a very similar training to the installation basics training, but they're basically a paid fellow for GRID Alternatives, so they may work on installation projects, they may work on project management, they may get introduced to solar sales. The folks who go through the fellowship program have a pretty good understanding of end-to-end solar project, which is really fantastic and really great. And the installation basics training is more of what we think about, I think, when we're talking about workforce development training cohorts. It's a little more short term. It's really meant to get you up and running into a job in a relatively quick turnaround time.
(24:48):
And it's really good, again, for adult populations who are looking to transfer into solar. So the way GRID works is, in some cases, they themselves are the nonprofit who are hosting the training, but in a lot of other cases, they may partner with other organizations. For example, they've got partnership with Homeboy Industries in LA. And so for those listeners who are familiar, Homeboy Industries works with folks who are reentering and then folks who might have been involved with gangs and helps rehabilitate and really focuses on economic opportunities, so GRID Alternatives partners with them on deploying their IBT training, as well.
(25:23):
They've been quite successful at having a lot of graduates. We fund their installer basics training for women. We funded two women's only cohorts with them, which we're really excited about. And, typically, each cohort tends to be somewhere in the 10 to 15 people range, and GRID works with a variety of solar installer partners to get folks placed at the end of that, so they're actively working on expanding and scaling. They, like many of us in the solar industry, have been very California-focused for quite some time, so they're bringing their training into other markets.
(25:56):
They just worked with a partner out in Illinois and had their first cohort of IBT out in Illinois and I know that on the horizon for them, and as part of our partnership with them, is to think about how we get GRID Alternatives training into other markets. So that's a really great place for solar companies to find pretty, I would say, entry-level installers, perhaps also very entry-level site survey, things of that nature, those types of roles, field roles, coming out of that. We also partner with an organization out in New York called Solar One. They run a very similar type of training to GRID Alternatives, and they have a two to three-week, depending again on the funding source and what the nonprofit they're working with is looking for on solar and green building.
(26:39):
So it's not just solar. They're learning full building electrification techniques. This was an organization that I was familiar with when I worked at the City of New York, as well, and so we have operations in the New York metro region. Our warehouses themselves aren't from the city and so that was a key partnership for us to think about how do we help this organization ramp up their candidates. One thing that I love about all of these training partners is you're pretty much guaranteed that all of their candidates are going to walk out of training with either OSHA 10, OSHA 30, First Aid, CPR.
(27:08):
When we're thinking about what the industry really also wants, when we're talking about entry-level folks on a field position, we really want people to have safety off the bat. We want to make sure that they themselves have been introduced and we're going to introduce them more. But it's always really helpful for us to have folks who are joining our team to understand safety culture and really prioritize it. And then one of the other organizations that we're working with is, of course, Solar Energy International.
(27:34):
They do a variety of things. They certainly train intros and entry levels into solar, but they also have advanced classes, and so a lot of our internal employees go back to get additional advanced training from Solar Energy International, but we also promote, and we work with them on deploying their Solar Intro Lab, their Solar 101 Lab. We just wrapped up the funding for a Women in Solar scholarship program, which we're super excited about. We supported 37 women with scholarships through Solar Energy International's training, both online and in person.
(28:09):
I got to go to the Women's Installation Lab, which was super fun, and meet all of the women. There were about 30 women from, really, across the world who were attending that training, looking to either get into solar or to enhance their skills, and so a lot of folks were in project management or really on the installation support side and really wanted to get a better understanding of what's happening, hands-on, with installation so they could support their teams better.
Yin Lu (28:36):
That's awesome. Three quite distinct partnerships. It sounds like the initial model for working with partners is there's some type of funding that SunPower gives to these presumably nonprofits that do the training programs. And then once those people emerge from those training programs, is there then a pathway for them to get hired at SunPower?
Alyssa Thomas (28:59):
Typically, what happens is at the end of a cohort, we will come and do a career showcase, or somebody from my recruiting team or myself will come give a presentation on the open positions we have, benefits, et cetera. When it comes to particularly GRID Alternatives and Solar One, their total package of what they do is focused on job placement, whereas Solar Energy International does a lot of upskilling and does connect folks back to employers and back to jobs. But their main mission is not just job placement, it is solar training and solar advancement. And so for GRID and for Solar One, they have job fairs quite frequently, and GRID Alternatives, in particular, has job fairs. They host the job fair at RE+ that we see come out every year. And so there's tons of opportunities for us to participate with GRID Alternatives and job fairs, and we do that.
(29:52):
I'd say we might go to a GRID Alternatives job fair every other month, so maybe more frequently. And then, in addition to that, we also really think about the internal process of that. So the external is make sure people are ready and we could potentially recruit from them, but internally we also have to make sure that our hiring managers are aware of what's in these training programs, aware of our partnerships, aware that we would like them to recruit some of these candidates.
(30:18):
This year we started something internally called a Workforce Partner Spotlight, and it's where we bring in our partners for an hour webinar, and so we open it to all hiring managers, but we will particularly focus on maybe that nonprofit would support hiring better for a particular business division. So we'll really emphasize that business division attending and all of the recruiters who support that business division, and the nonprofit will walk through just a brief overview of who they are, what they do, what their relationship with SunPower has been like, and then we'll do a deep dive into their workforce development training programs, their curriculums, and then talk about how our hiring managers can connect to their candidates.
(30:56):
That's been a really great opportunity because we had GRID Alternatives come the other day and do a presentation and I think it's really critical that our operations leaders and our operations managers are on the call and can look at pictures and videos of the training, can see the overview of the step-by-step curriculum that installers, or future SunPower installers, are going through so that they really understand the value of that pipeline. That's something that I really do suggest that all companies who are committed to workforce development think about doing, that it's not just enough to introduce your recruiting teams to the partners.
(31:32):
You really need to introduce your hiring managers and you need to introduce your teams who are going to be bringing that talent onto the organization, both so they know what's in the curriculum, and, too, I think it's a reciprocal relationship, so it's really important for our nonprofit partners to get feedback from our operations leaders on how they could improve that curriculum. What might be missing? What might be a technical skill that we really need someone to have that's not in the training right now, that they could add to that training? And so building opportunities for connection like that is a win-win for both the nonprofit and a win-win for us at SunPower.
Yin Lu (32:09):
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(33:10):
I want to dive a bit more into maybe another lever on how SunPower thinks about workforce development. We talked about funding and goal for existing adults who want to transition into the solar space. What about on the earlier education side of the house? I wonder if you all do anything with policymakers. What does that look like, just given the importance that we fill that pool with younger talent, but knowing that is a much longer runway and is harder and it hinges on curriculum changing? So what are some of the types of the things that you all do within the policy space, if any?
Alyssa Thomas (33:45):
Yeah. When it comes to policy-related items, we typically work in two ways. I sit on the Workforce Development Committee with CEA, and so really they represent the whole industry in thinking about high-level policy things. They go out and they do a lot of communications for us, and we really focus with other companies on that committee, on the awareness piece, so it's a very new committee, but I think that there's going to be a lot coming out of that that's going to push on the front of what is it we need to see again on that larger macro level. They're the Solar Energy Industry Association, so they're the industry association for all solar companies, resi, commercial, utility, great solar community.
(34:29):
They're a great partner and their VP of Workforce Development, Erica Simmons, comes from GRID and from a great background of solar training, so she definitely gets it. And then we also work on a state-by-state basis, so I have policy people on our SunPower team. They're broken up by region and so there will typically be opportunities for us to comment on policy that's coming out, related to a clean energy workforce training. That could be at the career and technical education level. That could again be at the adult population level, so my policy team will typically let me know, "Hey, the state is looking for information. Do you want to sit on this focus group? Do you want to give feedback in this survey?"
(35:10):
That's one of the key ways right now that we think about how we influence, particularly on the state level. There is some federal work that we do, particularly sometimes the Department of Energy puts out some surveys or some requests for information on what it is that we need from a workforce standpoint. And then, again, it's really thinking about our policy team working largely with industry associations who are doing that kind of higher-level advocacy for us at the policy level, what we would need from workforce.
(35:38):
And then I wouldn't call it a policy level, but we do meet with individual school districts, so I've had conversations with school districts on how we would suggest integrating solar into their curriculum, what it is that we would be able to provide at no cost for them. Again, be that advising on curriculum that they're looking to develop, be that curriculum that we might be able to just provide to them. And then oftentimes we like to think about is there any potential panel donations that we can give or equipment donations for students to actually test and work on systems.
Yin Lu (36:09):
Any existing policies that are going through the Department of Education or Department of Labor machine to build a more rich career and technical education curriculum back into our K-to-12 system?
Alyssa Thomas (36:25):
Well, both of those organizations, particularly, again, the Department of Labor, they're very funding-focused. They're not policy-driven organizations. So they might get requests to ask us for information about how to design a program or how to better deploy funding and so that's what they're really looking to do. The Department of Labor funds a lot of career and technical education, as does the Department of Education. A lot of the funding also comes through WIOLA funds, Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act funds.
(36:55):
And then, if we look at it, I know I mentioned it earlier, but YouthBuild is a really great organization. A lot of that funding comes through the Department of Labor, and that started as construction trades. It is no longer just construction trades, but that is another way that they're thinking about deploying funding. There are particular grants opportunities that come available and so I think it's important to note that those government agencies operate by, again, deploying funding.
(37:19):
So they themselves don't actually execute any of the program. They are the organizations that ensure that the proper either nonprofits or schools have the funding that they need. Again, the opportunities remain more flexible when we're thinking about the adult populations or we're thinking about non-high school related workforce types of programs. And so I often advocate that companies also consider building really strong partnerships with community colleges. They are a really great place for underserved communities to get access to education.
(37:52):
And the focus of community colleges really tends to be on workforce development and job placement, versus four-year educational institutions are not always focused on job placement at the outcome that they're trying to produce. And workforce development in community colleges can range from certificate programs. A lot of community colleges will act as a group sponsor for apprenticeship programs, as well, and then they can also deploy associate's degrees. There's just a really wide variety of opportunities that come through them and there is a pretty high level of both state and federal interest in deploying funding to community colleges because they are very equitable in who they serve.
Yin Lu (38:35):
On the note of equity, I know that this is a very important area for you personally and for SunPower. I'm curious how you think about workforce development that addresses diversity and inclusion, and if there are any programs that exist at SunPower or other examples of organizations that you've seen that really doubled down on that diversity piece. You've already mentioned the collaboration with Homeboy Industries and specific programs really targeted at helping women excel in the solar space. Talk us through what the bigger picture is on diversity and inclusion.
Alyssa Thomas (39:11):
For SunPower, in particular, we have a pretty strong commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion through a program called, or initiative, rather, called 25X25. We launched this in 2021. I would say this is probably the main reason that I was on board, so, while I think that workforce development inherently has to be equitable in how it's done in order for it to be successful, and so I'll say that it's not that every program that we push out is from a workforce development standpoint, is like, "We're doing this because of equity." It is just going to produce an equitable outcome, and that's the purpose of doing it.
(39:46):
So when it comes to 25X25, it's really our three-pillar approach to diversity. And we look at our workforce, we look at our customers, and we look at our supplier dealer network. Obviously, I work on the workforce development piece here and our commitments are to reach 40% women in non-field roles by 2025 and 10% women in field roles by 2025. And so for non-field roles, we're at 36% as of our 2022 ESG report. And for field roles, we're at 5% as of our 2022 ESG report.
(40:21):
And the reason that we've called them out separately, as I know everybody listening knows, not a lot of women in the trades. So we really, really have to start building that market and that pool in order for us to even meet that internal metric. Again, that's why you'll see a very large push from us when it comes to foundation funding and when it comes to partnerships to really focus on building women into installation and electrician roles. It's also important that we try to benchmark those goals against what is realistic, so the estimate right now is that only 1% to 2% of electricians are women across the whole electrician sectors, all industries.
(41:00):
So we're starting at a pretty low point, and it's going to take a pretty wide collective effort from SunPower, from industry associations, from other businesses, to reach gender equity, particularly in operations and field roles. Our other workforce commitment is that 25% of both our non-field and field employees will be Black and Latinx by 2025, and for non-field, we're at 16%. We have partnerships with organizations like Thrive Scholars where we fund them for college persistence programs for first-gen students of color in STEM programs. And so we're working on how do we, again, build that market up so we can recruit and bring more folks of color into non-field roles. And then for field employees, we're at 43%, so well surpassed the goal on that front.
(41:45):
Again, we use all of the workforce developments programs that I've talked about to get to that point, to build us to be able to do that. We also really think about what it means to be at SunPower. We have really robust employee resource groups. We train our managers and leaders on leading inclusive teams, on being an ally, on unconscious bias. We have respectful workplace trainings for some of our frontline teams, which really focus on fostering psychological safety. Another thing that I'm really excited about is the variety of members on our HR team who support frontline-facing employees. We've all got certified this past spring in mental health first aid, and so we're also really more capable to respond to the crises that our employees might be experiencing, micro-macro traumas that impact their ability to show up at home, to show up at work, to show up in their community.
(42:36):
So we're doing a variety of things to get people into the door and then to say, "Great, SunPower is a really awesome place for you to work. We want to make sure you feel like you belong here." That's a really critical element of our 25X25 initiative, even if it's not spelled out in the metrics piece, because you can't really measure some of those things. And then the other components are on customers. The goal is that 25% of our customers will be from historically disadvantaged communities by 2025. We use the Biden administration climate and economic justice screening tool to make the designation of what a disadvantaged community is, so that's not something we've arbitrarily come up with.
(43:16):
We are currently at 17% for that, so a big strategy around that is partnering with nonprofit organizations, nonprofit dealers who can install on our behalf, briefly using the investment tax credit adders for more disadvantaged communities that add an additional 10% to what they can save. And then really also expanding our strategy to focus on multifamily homes, which tends to be more equalizers in terms of income. And then the last piece is really looking at our dealer and supplier network, so again, focusing here that 25% of our dealers and suppliers will be minority or women-owned businesses.
(43:53):
So we're at 12% here. We've built partnerships with organizations like Black Owners of Solar Services, the National Association of Minority Contractors, and we're looking at how do we also, through the foundation, support technical assistance to the development of subcontractors who are MWBEs in the solar space. Because, with all of these diversity pillars that we're talking about, we have to make sure that there's a market there, there's a market of diverse workers, there's a market of diverse suppliers for us to even do business with and partner with in the first place. So the foundation is really focused on how do we address the barriers that would prevent these groups from participating in a clean energy and a solar future to begin with.
Yin Lu (44:39):
So, on the barriers that do exist, if you had a magic wand that you can wave around and remove those barriers, what would that look like?
Alyssa Thomas (44:49):
There's so many things that we can say. I think one of the first things is we need to bring career and technical education training back into all high schools and start at a younger age. I don't think that it should be you have to go to a particular high school to even have an introduction to these careers and to get to be able to do some hands-on work. So I think, one, bringing that back into creating a more equitable education policy that's not just focused on sending folks to college, even though college is great, and we definitely need people to go to college, we really need people who can do trades work. That's one of, I think, the systemic barriers that we really need to focus on is the education system is not really responding to the market needs, and it's not as flexible and nimble as we actually need it to be for us to meet those demands.
(45:36):
I think when we're talking about adult populations and even folks coming from underserved communities, there's other barriers, driver's licenses. Those are huge barrier to getting into any type of solar trades or construction-based type of field because you've got to be able to drive to and from the job. And if you're growing up in a low-income community, if you're growing up in an urban community, it's possible that you don't have a driver's license, so that itself might prevent you from even being able to enter the market.
(46:03):
I think we also have to talk about, if we're going to bring more women into the sector, childcare. I don't know that we can talk about creating a level playing field for women to be in field roles if we don't actually think about where they can put their kids in affordable childcare when they've got to be on a job site at 6:00 AM. So there's a necessity, even for the training programs themselves, how do we support women or families with kids, because it's not just a woman thing, to get that type of childcare so they can get the proper training so that they can go to work and they don't have to have exorbitant costs related to childcare?
(46:40):
Those are some of the key programmatic barriers that are things that we can actually tackle and that we can build into programming so that people can get into the sector. And the last thing that apprenticeships really does address is apprenticeships, whether they're registered or unregistered, are the gold standard of a workforce development program. And that is because they are an earn-and-learn model. I think people should get paid while they're learning. I feel pretty critical about that, that many folks cannot afford to go to school and go to training without having an income. It is just not a realistic thing for people to do, and apprenticeships circumvent that.
(47:20):
They say, "Okay, you're going to get paid for the classroom hours and then you're also going to get some really key structured on-the-job training with mentors and with journeymen, or whatever we might want to classify the mentor as, who's going to teach you how to do that job." There's career steps, so apprenticeships typically say, "At this six-month mark or at this competency level, we're going to move you up. You're going to go into this position." And that level of clarity is also really awesome for job seekers who know that they're now in a pathway where there's stability and there's longevity.
(47:52):
So I think, again, it doesn't have to actually be a registered apprenticeship all of the time, unless, again, you're trying to comply with the IRA to get the tax credits. But just using that framework as people's ability to get paid while they're in a training program, especially individuals coming from low-income communities, is going to be critical for them to be able to actually participate and be successful in a training program.
Yin Lu (48:16):
That was a lot. What I heard from you is three key levers. One, just around equitable education policy and bringing back CTE trainings into every high school in America. Two is social services, just as an underpinning to enable people to be able to do the job and work the hours that are required of the job. And three is investing more into apprenticeship programs, both from the private sector and the public sector, presumably?
Alyssa Thomas (48:43):
Both private and public. There's registered apprenticeship programs, which are either state or federal, depending. Different states follow federal guidelines. Some don't. Each state is a little bit different, but there's also unregistered apprenticeships. This was something that we worked on at the City of New York, and it was an apprenticeship style model. It was called Apprentice NYC and essentially what we did there was we built 12 weeks of upfront training. We subsidized all of the wages during that time for the employers, so they were employees during that time, but we helped pay the wages because the employer was not actually getting their employee on site.
(49:20):
We paid for the training itself to happen, and then we worked with the businesses for an additional, I believe it was a year after those initial weeks of training, on continuous education, still did some wage subsidization, as well. And then working with the businesses to ensure that they were reporting on tasks that folks were actually being taught on the job and filling out basically what's called a work process schedule, so it's more investing in that type of model of training. Because registered apprenticeships can be difficult.
(49:50):
It can be difficult to start a new occupation, it can be difficult to find something in your area, so if you need it to comply with a regulation, you should absolutely do it. But that's not the case, always, and it's really important for us to think about, "Okay, apprenticeships are really successful workforce development types of programs because they're really built to provide everybody with the classroom, the hands-on and the wages that they need and the business knows what people are being taught."
(50:17):
And I think that's really important, as well, from a company perspective of, "Why should I invest in this?" Well, I can virtually guarantee skill development at specific levels and ensure that my employees also feel really confident that they're on a career trajectory here. And so when people know there's upward mobility, when they know they can gain more skills and they know there's going to be a wage increase, you can retain those employees a lot better. There's a key operational people management perspective from a business of why they would want to invest in, again, whether unregistered or registered types of apprenticeship training.
Yin Lu (50:52):
I feel like this warrants another episode where we just deep dive into the nuances and the complexities of apprenticeship programs.
Alyssa Thomas (50:59):
You should definitely talk to CEA about that one, either Erica Simmons or Becky Long. They would be able to be fantastic folks to talk about that.
Yin Lu (51:07):
Oh, my gosh. Okay. We'll follow up after the show on that. Thank you. Well, Alyssa, thank you for spending so much time with us, educating us on the history and the nuances of workforce development and why it's so critical at this point in our collective climate journey. I just really appreciate the work that you do and excited for how workforce development will continue to evolve as an important pillar of how we think about economic development for the climate industry.
Alyssa Thomas (51:36):
Thank you so much for having me. I hope that this inspired other companies, other folks to get involved in workforce development.
Jason Jacobs (51:43):
Thanks again for joining us on the My Climate Journey podcast.
Cody Simms (51:48):
At MCJ Collective, we're all about powering collective innovation for climate solutions by breaking down silos and unleashing problem-solving capacity.
Jason Jacobs (51:57):
If you'd like to learn more about MCJ Collective, visit us at mcjcollective.com. And if you have a guest suggestion, let us know that via Twitter at mcjpod.
Yin Lu (52:10):
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Cody Simms (52:19):
Thanks, and see you next episode.
